Official Religion Debate Thread

I'm with DPM here with these comments Darco.

It sounds like you have some documented evidence of a conspiracy within the church to hide truth and knowledge. Information that you need to share with us.

I do believe that the church has had its fair amount of corruption, the same could be said about any large organization with influence on people, and I personally dont believe on a literal interpretation of events of either the old or new testament. However I do believe that their was someone named Jesus who was a prophet and did teach ways to better live our lives and that all information in the bible is along these same lines.

I do believe that the church did try to control the amount of information people had about the world though I don't approve of it personally, it doesn't effect my personal faith in god

Last month was about fish and how the beginning of the ministry of Jesus centers around fish. Today we approach the sign of Aries.

Aries is symbolized by the ram. A ram is an uncastrated male Sheep and a lamb is nothing more than a young sheep. You can read about them here (BTW the latin name for sheep is "Ovis aries")

The book of John starts as a quick summary or recap of things that have already been mentioned in Mathew and Luke.

In order:

Aquarius

John 1:31-33 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Pisces (represented by two fish and the fishermen who became disciples. explained last month)

John1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples.

Aries
John1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Aries is a Ram!?!?!?! so uh not a sheep.

[DarkPacMan77]

Aries is a Ram!?!?!?! so uh not a sheep.

Don't be so dense.

-DarkPacMan77-

oh. well i stand corrected =)

Well it's been another month and now the sun is rising in the constellation Taurus.

Taurus is commonly represented by the bull. Bull is a generic term for male bovine which include Oxen and Buffalo. Other animals are also called bulls but I will refer to the ones that have horns.

Brahman bull
A bull is castrated and used as a beast of burden. Castration makes the animal more docile and easier to control when carrying a load occasionally in the form of a a cart but usually a plow which is used to till the fields to prepare them for planting.

A plow is attached to a yoke and a yoke is strapped on the animal to "shoulder the load".

Bulls strapped to a yoke pulling a plow

Matthew 11:28-30
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

C U next month...

First off I am not Arguing. I am giving a definiton of what that passage of scripture means. I am not diss agreeing with you lol

So here we go.

this is quoted lol

11:25-30 It becomes children to be grateful. When we come to God as a Father, we must remember that he is Lord of heaven and earth, which obliges us to come to him with reverence as to the sovereign Lord of all; yet with confidence, as one able to defend us from evil, and to supply us with all good. Our blessed Lord added a remarkable declaration, that the Father had delivered into his hands all power, authority, and judgment. We are indebted to Christ for all the revelation we have of God the Father's will and love, ever since Adam sinned. Our Saviour has invited all that labour and are heavy-laden, to come unto him. In some senses all men are so. Worldly men burden themselves with fruitless cares for wealth and honours; the gay and the sensual labour in pursuit of pleasures; the slave of Satan and his own lusts, is the merest drudge on earth. Those who labour to establish their own righteousness also labour in vain. The convinced sinner is heavy-laden with guilt and terror; and the tempted and afflicted believer has labours and burdens. Christ invites all to come to him for rest to their souls. He alone gives this invitation; men come to him, when, feeling their guilt and misery, and believing his love and power to help, they seek him in fervent prayer. Thus it is the duty and interest of weary and heavy-laden sinners, to come to Jesus Christ. This is the gospel call; Whoever will, let him come. All who thus come will receive rest as Christ's gift, and obtain peace and comfort in their hearts. But in coming to him they must take his yoke, and submit to his authority. They must learn of him all things, as to their comfort and obedience. He accepts the willing servant, however imperfect the services. Here we may find rest for our souls, and here only. Nor need we fear his yoke. His commandments are holy, just, and good. It requires self-denial, and exposes to difficulties, but this is abundantly repaid, even in this world, by inward peace and joy. It is a yoke that is lined with love. So powerful are the assistances he gives us, so suitable the encouragements, and so strong the consolations to be found in the way of duty, that we may truly say, it is a yoke of pleasantness. The way of duty is the way of rest. The truths Christ teaches are such as we may venture our souls upon. Such is the Redeemer's mercy; and why should the labouring and burdened sinner seek for rest from any other quarter? Let us come to him daily, for deliverance from wrath and guilt, from sin and Satan, from all our cares, fears, and sorrows. But forced obedience, far from being easy and light, is a heavy burden. In vain do we draw near to Jesus with our lips, while the heart is far from him. Then come to Jesus to find rest for your souls

First off I am not Arguing. I am giving a definiton of what that passage of scripture means. I am not diss agreeing with you

It doesn't matter to me either way. Disagree or not, it's more fun when we argue anyways so here goes.

The New Testament is compiled from Greek translations of some older no longer existing document. The scriptures we accept as the word of god are a second or even third hand version of a presumed original which no one has seen for over 1000 years or more if it ever existed at all. There is a possibility that the gospels were originally written in Greek but that would be like someone writing the story of George Washington in Spanish and no one ever discovering a version of it in English. NO copies of the new testament exist in Hebrew or Aramaic which I find odd seeing how that was the common language of Judea at the time the story takes place. This is not the case for the Old Testament however.

Anyhow since you seem to feel I have taken the above scripture out of context by posting most of the chapter then Tyler, explain this passage for us.

Mathew 10:32-39
(Jesus speaking)
"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

For I have come to turn:
a man against his father
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me(Jesus) is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Cheery passage no? I am not going to dissect every line however I do want to point out one telling error in this scripture; this part about taking a cross and following Jesus.

So far in the story Jesus has not predicted his death nor done anything worthy of being executed so what cross is he referring to at this point? Jesus doesn't even predict his death until Mathew 16 but we are in Chapter 10!

Most people read this and it never registers because we are told that Jesus did in fact carry and die on a cross but I will get to that later.

Now keep in mind that only criminals were crucified in Roman times. So why would Jesus make the connection between his own flock and a criminal worthy of execution by crucifixion?

As for Jesus carrying a cross, according to Mathew, Jesus didn't carry his own cross. Some guy named Simon was chosen to do that for him! (Mat 27:32) WTF?

OH and I'm not mad I am having fun. Hope to hear from you soon!

First off I am not Arguing. I am giving a definiton of what that passage of scripture means. I am not diss agreeing with you

It doesn't matter to me either way. Disagree or not, it's more fun when we argue anyways so here goes.

The New Testament is compiled from Greek translations of some older no longer existing document. The scriptures we accept as the word of god are a second or even third hand version of a presumed original which no one has seen for over 1000 years or more if it ever existed at all. There is a possibility that the gospels were originally written in Greek but that would be like someone writing the story of George Washington in Spanish and no one ever discovering a version of it in English. NO copies of the new testament exist in Hebrew or Aramaic which I find odd seeing how that was the common language of Judea at the time the story takes place. This is not the case for the Old Testament however.

Anyhow since you seem to feel I have taken the above scripture out of context by posting most of the chapter then Tyler, explain this passage for us.

Mathew 10:32-39
(Jesus speaking)
"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

For I have come to turn:
a man against his father
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me(Jesus) is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Cheery passage no? I am not going to dissect every line however I do want to point out one telling error in this scripture; this part about taking a cross and following Jesus.

So far in the story Jesus has not predicted his death nor done anything worthy of being executed so what cross is he referring to at this point? Jesus doesn't even predict his death until Mathew 16 but we are in Chapter 10!

Most people read this and it never registers because we are told that Jesus did in fact carry and die on a cross but I will get to that later.

Now keep in mind that only criminals were crucified in Roman times. So why would Jesus make the connection between his own flock and a criminal worthy of execution by crucifixion?

As for Jesus carrying a cross, according to Mathew, Jesus didn't carry his own cross. Some guy named Simon was chosen to do that for him! (Mat 27:32) WTF?

OH and I'm not mad I am having fun. Hope to hear from you soon!

Hmmmmm jesus started carrying his Cross but due to the shear torture and beating he physically could not carry it anymore.

The man taking over and carrying the cross represents us carrying our own cross (burdens) and following christ to or fate.

Any religion you are to trust your god more that anyone else, as to EVERYONE wil let you down except your god. Crist is the only way you can get to heaven. And you should be willing to do anything to do so.

Now keep in mind that only criminals were crucified in Roman times. So why would Jesus make the connection between his own flock and a criminal worthy of execution by crucifixion?

To show he is no better than us and he loves us so much he would subject himself to the worst punishment.

But everyone can translate to what they feel or think.

[DarkPacMan77]

To show he is no better than us and he loves us so much he would subject himself to the worst punishment.

But if you love anything more than him, you are not worthy of his greatness. That, to me, negates that interpretation.

-DarkPacMan77-

refer to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Nothing is wrong with religion..

It is however something to talk about.. lol

Nothing is wrong with religion..

It is however something to talk about.. lol

in my opinion, there is everything wrong with religion. but i know that other people follow it, and i know that my belief isnt the only one.

[DarkPacMan77]

refer to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Carlin would have got to the pearly gates and kicked someone in the nuts. Gotta shut down the PC though. Big storms.

-DarkPacMan77-

refer to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Carlin would have got to the pearly gates and kicked someone in the nuts. Gotta shut down the PC though. Big storms.

-DarkPacMan77-

true that, and ya, ima bout to go watch them.