Most amazing computer in the world.

[DarkPacMan77]

How good are the processors?

The dual core Intel Xeon processor that is in the server is great. The AMD Athlon 64 4000+ processors are not that great. From a gamer's standpoint (as far as processors go), the AMD Athlon 3500+ is what is recommended as the lowest AMD processor that can play the game F.E.A.R. (which needs high system specs). So the 4000+ is a good processor (similar to a powerful Celeron D processor by Intel), but not the greatest if someone was to build a great network and create "important projects". The 4000+ is not necessarily the type of processor with the most raw CPU power in the world lol. Just to name a few models after the 4000+ that are better:

4200+
4400+

and on to dual core types which significantly outperform the single cores (X2 only means "times two" for the cores)

X2 3800+
X2 4200+
X2 4400+
X2 4600+.. you get the idea.

The BEST AMD processor on the market is the AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+. Currently, AMD has dual core technology and Intel has stepped up to quad core already (AMD will follow). Intel chips currently lead the top benchmarks (including overclocking).

Now if someone were to make a network of workstations for large files that required all of the extra equipment... and this person is knowledgeable about computers... why would they build a network of 7-9 workstations with lower-end processors when they could save money and only build 2-4 workstations with much more powerful processing capabilities?

Seems ignorant and wasteful to me.

-DarkPacMan77-

It just look fancy....

ok i see wat you mean now DPM but it does make him look cool lol. yea when first saw it i was like to many screens, but yea i see wat you mean.

[DarkPacMan77]

don't get me wrong though, it's more than adequate and since it bottlenecks itself then it will always work fast (the network that is). I tried not to bore you guys with computer talk but ... sh*t happens lol.

-DarkPacMan77-

Yesterday I got an e-mail from someone pointing out this website and forum and said I should join and answer questions. Since I'm not a gamer and don't own a PSP that seemed like a moot point. Today I got another e-mail from someone else asking me if I wanted to respond to a theory presented by "DarkPacMan77". Anyone who is so able to eloquently describe a theory and analsys that really makes no sense at all and misses 90% of the key points does deserve a bit of extra insight. After reading the theory... well, maybe it'll be fun, so here I am. I'm not sure where to start so I'll just hop over it in chronological order.

It's a waste of money for the use described.

Perhaps you should provide an outline based on your perception on what that particular use, as described, means to you, since that would be crucial to your theory as the basis for your excellent (albeit flawed) analysis.

The ONLY benefit that comes from the usage of a network on those machines is that it is easier to save whatever the user is working on to the network memory and call it back on any of the computers.

The ONLY? Wow. There's so much more to network than "sharing" files. Ever considered the requirement of having system partition images created without a network? Did you consider the compiler farm that needs to interact with the other systems in order to complete a full project build? What about online backups and routing incoming and outgoing traffic from team members who access the source repositories via one of a number of virtualized servers that pertain to that particular task? How would they communicate without a network? I'd also have to ask what you mean by "network memory".

but all computers on that network are in the same room, so there is no need to open them from a different computer anyways if the computer is right next to you.

Sure there is. Not all computers run the same system, nor have the same task. Your theory is that it would be more efficient to open the files on a single system instead of over a network. Interesting concept, but it shows that the assumptions that form the basis of your theory are really quite flawed.

Here's a bit of insight for you; System A, a dual AMD needs to compile for specific AMD targets, hence it's being done on an AMD system. System B, a 32 bit system, needs to compile for 32 bit, and System C is 64 bit and is needed to compile for 64-bit OS targets. Would it be better to have all files duplicated on every machine or have them in a single place (and two backup locations) and have all the systems access the same files in order to ensure they are all the same? What do you think?

I suppose you should also lookup what an RCS, VCS, or otherwise referred to as Revision Control System or Software Configuration Management Systems are. Google for Subversion (SVN) in order to get a small glimpse of information on what is going on at the back of the network. Just a tip. It may make your second version of a theory a lot more accurate.

Also, while the builder of this network has 32gb of ram, and tons of storage space, two of the computers on the system are only running single core Athlon64 4000+ processors.

Which are also for a specific purpose. Those two little stubs are the internet gateways and main mail/DNS/etc. servers on the network. No need to throw a lot of power at it for that purpose. I don't understand the relation to the 32GB RAM in the massive VM host, though. There is none.

but those are supposed to be used to spread the heavy usage of CPU power?...

They are supposed to be used for that? Wow. I didn't know that. And I'm only the guy who set it up like that. Would you be so kind as to tell me how you came to the conclusion that those two little twin stubs would be part of the distribution and "heavy usage of CPU power"?

no... I wouldn't count on those machines for what sounds like big "projects" of importance.

I rely on them for DNS, mail server, and internet connectivity. Those are quite important to me. That's why there are two instead of one. Redundancy, failover, and backup.

bottom line - if managed separately (without being linked on an in-home network), these computer systems would be able to utilize the same productivity levels as if they were on the network;

OK, explain that to me in as much detail as you are able to.

HOWEVER, you'd be able to save the thousands and thousands of dollars that were spent on the network components (HDD space/ case/ fans/ cable/ routers etc.)

How do you recon that? Please do explain, I'm really interested.

The 32gb of network ram comes down to 4.5gb's of ram for each of the 7 workstations

What on earth are you talking about here? Why do you insist on calling the 32GB RAM in the VM host "network ram". There's no such thing as network RAM, at least not in this network here. And how do you come around to dividing that amount of RAM into 7 equal parts? That really makes no sense at all. You seem to assume, if I follow correctly, that the memory in the VM host system is used as shared memory over a network, much of how a badly constructed cluster would do it. That's not the case and it would be very inefficient to use high speed RAM over a much lower speed network.

Perhaps you should investigate what virtualization is about, what it means, how it works. It's all over my FAQ but you haven't mentioned it at all in your theory. Don't be offended if I am assuming that you don't know what virtualization is. Basically it allows me to run several operating systems at once on a single machine. Not just the OS parts, of course, each virtual machine (commonly referred to as a "VM") has a specific task and is installed and configured for that task. If you read the FAQ you will see I mention a compiler farm consisting of different targets and compilers, for starters.

which makes me wonder how much ram the computers by themselves actually have installed on them but it is most likely the max that

No need to wonder. It's listed on the sidebar of the main office page.

is it highly possible that the person isn't using a 64 bit version of XP? --- answer = yes, which means that XP will only read a max of 2gb of ram --- which also means that the workstations will bottleneck

Answer == no, actually. Several systems run both 32 and 64 bit and are dual boot (another way to have a bit of redundancy in case I hose an OS for any particular purpose without having been in the safeguard of a VM). On the systems with 4GB RAM, when using XP x86 instead of x64, then yes, it will only use 3GB of the RAM that's in there (large memory addressing and VM's means 3GB, not 2GB, incidentally). It's a tradeoff for the times when I absolutely do need to be running x86 on those systems. Otherwise they do actually use the full installment of RAM using x64. If you had read the FAQ more closely you would not have come to the "highly possible" factor of your theory.

themselves along the line and the 32gb of network/ server ram is completely unnecessary b/c it is far too much and without reason for what this is being used for.

Please explain in your own words to the best of your ability what that 32GB RAM system is being used for, and for what reason? Hint: think virtualization... time to adjust your theory completely, isn't it?

And it will, but they are individual workstations. Just look at the different keyboards/ mice.

If you read the FAQ, or better said, if you understand what it says in there, you will have learned that I only use one set of those but sometimes switch to another set if needed. And yes, they are individual workstations that make up an entire network of systems, each with their particular purpose as part of the whole.

My post above is not for the average computer user, but for someone that understands a little more about computers (maybe you do I don't know and don't

After 26 years of computers I like to consider myself "average"

care) but my post basically points out that there is no need to network *7-9 computers for ONE person's personal use in the SAME room with such a powerful server and too much memory (in the sense of hard drive space AND network ram).

Do elaborate on "no need to network" and "too much memory"? I take it you have never seen, or perhaps even heard of, a VM host? Imagine 12-20 VM's running on a single system (instead of having an additional 12-20 systems in the office!) and now imagine them all having been allocated between 1-2GB of RAM on the system that's hosting those VM's. The only reason there's not 64GB RAM in there is because it was impossible to get the correct single rank modules.

True, but the workstations completely bottleneck the powerful server so about 60-70% of the server power is not even used. I would

What is this bottleneck you speak of? You keep referring to that particular machine as a server. It is a VM host. Some of the VM's are servers. Some are not. Some are Windows, some are Linux, some are x86, some are x64, and they all run simultaneously.

personally not measure efficiency by "how much" but rather "how much it does" and it's just my guess but I'd be hard pressed to find someone that needs two notebooks for any project... let alone 7 other workstations.

You're right. I needed three so recently got another one. Since both laptops were x86 and I sometimes might need to do some x64 stuff while on location or vacation or flying around, I had to get a laptop capable of running x64. But you are absolutely correct on the "let alone 7 other workstations", though. I could not do my work with only 7 workstations. That's why there are a few dozen VM's involved. For just one of the products I work on I need 15 systems in total which make up the entire process from source to final product builds. Different compiler VM's, the source respository server VM, the build manager VM, the four test targets and packagers, the automatic feature tracking server VM, etc. Hence, the use of virtualization (hint hint).

If other people are logging into the server and using them for business purposes... more power to them. That makes the system ram more ideal, however,

That has nothing to do with the system RAM, actually. When contractors and team members log in to update source code, check code in and out and provide changelogs and task completion details, they get routed through one of the two little AMD machines into one of a few VM's (one per active project) which in turn take the information and divide it up amongst two othe VM's that keep track of all projects and associated data, create realtime backups both online and offline, and provide a portal for teamwork. Each of those VM's are only assigned 512MB of RAM since that's plenty for them.

I'm going to take into account that the particular setup I see is not being used by any special companies and base that theory off of the fact that the

I like to think of all my clients and team members as "special".

workstations he has on his own network (including the notebooks) aren't really the best quality that he could and should be using if he is interacting with companies that would depend on his services. Also, I read no mention of a

The companies don't depend on the systems and its network, nor its connectivity. They depend on the results I provide and how I provide them has aparantly been successful since 1989.

backup generator or something either. That is a VERY small scale network, and

There's a mention of that on the FAQ. All critical systems have solid UPS support. But even if the entire network goes down and off the grid completely it's not a disaster. Everyone will just have to hold off on submission of source code and builds will end up later in the day or week. Not that I would like to have that happen, which is why I have taken sufficient measures to ensure that a big mess is avoided if the power would go out.

although powerful, it really just seems like it was someone's personal ambition to have the most expansive computer setup that they could (for w/e reason).

I'm confused. You present a theory based on a lot of assumptions and missing almost all of the key points and purposes, and now you refer to it as "whatever reason", implying you might not be entirely sure of the basis of your theory?

The dual core Intel Xeon processor that is in the server is great. The AMD Athlon 64 4000+ processors are not that great.

Would you recommend I replace them with another few dual dual core systems and draw even more power and go completely overkill for a couple of internet gateway, DNS, and mail servers?

From a gamer's standpoint (as far as processors go), the AMD Athlon 3500+ is what is recommended as the lowest AMD processor that can play the game F.E.A.R.

Good thing the internet gateway systems aren't used to play games! I knew I made the right decision not to play games on those.

Now if someone were to make a network of workstations for large files that required all of the extra equipment... and this person is knowledgeable about

What would you consider to be "large files"? The VM's that I regularly have to copy around the network when I create a clone target of a specific OS snapshot for further testing and debugging under specific conditions are often anywhere between 8GB and 50GB in size, in chunks of 2GB VHD/VMDK files. Would that be "large" enough? Ever thought about having accurate and current backups of those while using them, if not actually having complete offsite backups that require a full set of 8-12HD's?

computers... why would they build a network of 7-9 workstations with lower-end processors when they could save money and only build 2-4 workstations with much more powerful processing capabilities?

There's two small low end systems as internet gateways. The other systems do not appear to be so low end... if they are, my dealer overcharged me a lot! I could possibly work on 2-4 (well, 4+) workstations provided that two of those were an actual cluster of blades able to handle more VM's than I currently run. On the other hand, what I haven't seen analyzed in your theory is the redundancy factor. Right now if one system blows up I can easily move all the core VM's onto another from one of the backup locations and continue normal operations within a few hours. Even if I had to divide the VM's concurrently running on the 32GB dual Xeon onto two other systems it would still be business as usual. That's because they are in a network, the kind of network your theory describes as useless or otherwise impractical. The systems don't care where they are running as long as they are in the network and they will continue to share data and command eachother within the entire process. You can consider this "ignorant and wasteful to me", but the key word there is "me", or in this case, "you". Bet let's not claim ignorance until I've properly addressed your theory.

I say that b/c ANYBODY with a NETWORK should NEVER put all of their workstations in the same room... let alone within 2 feet from one another.

Why not? I've got a remote off-site setup for emergency purposes and another two systems elsewhere in the house (too noisy to put into the same room) so why not put all of it in the same room? In case a meteor strikes? Yeah, that would be bad. Good thing there's offsite backups on a daily basis and an insurance and sufficient company resources to recreate it all.

That defeats the purpose of a home network AND a business network and

This isn't a HOME network. It might be a home office, yes, but it's not meant as a home network. Unless there's a need for people to have a lot of virtualization for their home purposes but I haven't met many of those yet.

really... I don't think that any company would rely on that kind of tacky

They rely on my results, what's behind the results is rather irrelevant, don't you agree?

computer management. Putting all of that stuff in one room is easier for showing off, and honestly, it's neat, but I wouldn't show it off b/c I see flaws across the board.

I see flaws too in my own network and there's several things I do need to upgrade (that and a bigger home with more space to expand a little more) but the flaws I see in your "theory" are truly much much bigger.

I tried not to bore you guys with computer talk but ... sh*t happens lol.

Likewise, I hope I haven't bored anyone with this little insight into theory vs. practice and reality. I suspect I didn't bore the two guys begging me to come here. Anyway, I hope you're not (too) offended by me poking holes in your "theory". I do honestly hope you will research a few of the things I mentioned and expand your understanding of those things in order to come up with a more substantiated theory. Though I guess that's why you decided to call it a theory, which is great, because theories are there to be proven or disproven before they are turned into facts and reality. In this case, it's been a pleasure providing the initial "reality check" there.

If you have any further questions or things you'd like to me clear up, let me know, I'll be happy to provide you a better basis for future theories.

Stefan

Theyre pentium pro processors i believe (or at least those were his old ones in a picture that he stated)

heres a list of somje of the businesses he deals with... 3am Solutions, Ignyter, Ignytion, Animagic, Manticore Labs

*EDIT* woah jeeze...didnt see this guys response (although its huge so wondering how i missed it)

^^ just to let you know he is the dude who owns the computer so yea i think he knows wat he is talking about. so he was just trying to make his computer sound even better he will not be active again :'(.

^^ just to let you know he is the dude who owns the computer so yea i think he knows wat he is talking about. so he was just trying to make his computer sound even better he will not be active again :'(.

Oh, I might stick around for a little longer since I'm really very interested (sincerely interested, actually) in the theory of DarkPacMan77. Especially considering he wrote on this same forum somewhere that he hasn't picked up C++ to learn programming and where he wrote "I wish more people would ask if people think they should try something they know nothing about". So I'd love to hear how he came to his conclusions based on a tremendous lack of actual insight, some of which I hope I have provided a bit of direction on in this case.

I'm assuming he will follow his own advice there in order to get a more accurate "theory" going.

Stefan.

Lets not turn this into a flame war or anything,but i would like to hear something in reply DPM

I may come on strong but I'm not interested in a flame war either. I do think it will be interesting to hear how the theory came about (so I might clear up my FAQ a little for people reading it who are not experienced software engineers, which seems to be a lot of visitors after my site suddenly became widespread news). Though I think that for the moment DPM is researching topics such as Virtualization, Software engineering, Build Management, Compilers, Compiler Farms, Source Control, and maybe even some of the projects I work on.

He seems like a guy I'd go to for PSP and game related help, though. That is, if I had a PSP.

Im not accusing DPM right now but i dono if you are the real guy who owns the computer your grammar and length in posts are the same you maybe the real person but yea im thinking this will be coming in to a flam war so yea. maybe lock this now cuz yes your computer is great but yea u know wat i mean.

Im not accusing DPM right now but i dono if you are the real guy who owns the computer your grammar and length in posts are the same you maybe the real person but yea im thinking this will be coming in to a flam war so yea. maybe lock this now cuz yes your computer is great but yea u know wat i mean.

Neh, I doubt that. I'm not a flaming kind. Just provided DPM with the same level of "criticism" that his "theory" did, that's all. But if you're not sure I'd be who I say I am, perhaps you should send out an e-mail to Stefan Didak and check if I acknowledge that it is, indeed, myself. (Unless I suddenly develop multiple personality disorder and someone else responds but that's unlikely).

[DarkPacMan77]

I'm assuming he will follow his own advice there in order to get a more accurate "theory" going.
Stefan.

First thing's first Stefan. I welcome you to this forum, but in the same respect, neither myself or any of the other mods will tolorate this turning into any type of internet argument or "flame war" or anything of the sort. You've made a lot of backhanded compliments towards me and I am going to ignore them and continue posting in this thread in order to help you get the most out of your network because I believe that is the reason you are here. I will offer my assistance to you and all I ask for payment in return is for you to be respectful to me. I'm not sure if that was the intention of the comments you made towards me or not, and I don't care. All I am saying is that I won't tolorate that type of banter from here on out.

That said, and ugly talk aside, you seem to know a great wealth of computer knowledge and I hope you stay around. I must ask though, Stefan, are you using one of those workstations right now?

Now, I really don't understand what your point about my "theory" and your "fact" was all about. I tried to get the most out of reading what I could find but all I found was that two of the systems had athlon 64 4000+ in them. I had also read that you multitasked different workstations for their cpu power, and while that is a good processor I just couldn't imagine why you wouldn't upgrade the processors a little bit. If they work for you then it's ok though. I can't really make a judgment on what you need or don't need because I don't know the importance of the "projects" you do, whatever it is that they are.

Here's my only tiff though Stefan. I like that you challenge that I don't know all that I need to know to make a good analysis. That's true. I don't know what type of ram or at what voltage it runs or how fast the ram is clocked or what your front side bus readings are or what stress test benchmarks you run or any of that. You seem to know a lot about computers but at the same time lack individual product knowledge... that is just what I assume though.

I think it is good that you have made sure to tell me that you run multiple operating systems (I got that from that web page) but I didn't get a good idea of which computer, or which operating systems are being used on those individual computers. I would like to inform you, and my apologies if you didn't know, but windows 32bit will only support a yield of 2gb of ram, no matter what speed. If you have more than two gigs of ram on any of those computers with a 32 bit operating system then I highly advise to put the extra ram in a 64bit workstation instead (if the motherboards will support it). I was also under the assumption that you have a dual core xeon processor in your server... I'm hoping that is true. Please don't tell me that you are using that old server board with the pentium pros lol.

You also mention that you have your hard drives in raid setup. I'd like to know WHAT raid setup is on which system/server. I am at school currently, and for some reason I can't visit that one page of your network so If I am asking what is easily seen on your website then please post it here.

In all honesty, I think it's great that you've come here because I would love to critique your system, but in order for me to do so, I ask that you give me the specifications of each individual workstation and their purpose. Things that I am requesting to know are.

power supply - wattage - 12 volt rail?
ram - speed - how much?
motherboard model number(s)?
Do you have any graphics cards in any of the systems?
What companies use your network?
Sell me your Zx81?
what processors are in the workstations? - speed - L2 cache - brand - HT yes or no - socket
what types of drives do you use - your optical drives/ floppy/ hard drive(s)
your complete server specs?
the specs for the notebooks?
more specifics about the type of work you do and for who?
what did you pay for everything?

That's all I can think to ask right now, but I'm sure there will be more. I think I should add that I think you have a great network setup, but I just don't see the practicality of it. I guess I just don't see the purpose/ logic and I am under the belief that at some point your server is more powerful than your workstations need (which is a good future-proofing strategy and if you are planning to expand the network further, then I see the reason for this).

I just need to hear more about your system, that is all. I hope you post back with all of the info I mentioned above (and more). Keep in mind that it very well may be around 9:00 PM Eastern time that I get back here.

-DarkPacMan77-

First thing's first Stefan. I welcome you to this forum, but in the same respect, neither myself or any of the other mods will tolorate this turning into any type of internet argument or "flame war" or anything of the sort.

Thanks Deric. I'm not looking for a flame war at all, but you'll probably have to acknowledge that if you throw a lot of harsh criticism around you should expect back a little of that when the person you're doing that about just happens to get informed about it. If I wanted a flame war I wouldn't have taken the effort to create a user account here and reply, instead I would've posted the theory on my blog and pointed out things I could make fun of and have it be read by some 70.000 visitors a month. And I'm not THAT cruel.

in order to help you get the most out of your network because I believe that is the reason you are here.

Actually, not entirely. I'm here to help you actually understand the things you were writing about which I noticed were quite off target. If you have any help to offer with my network I'll be happy to hear it but based on what I've seen you write about it, I'm afraid you would need to understand a lot more about what I do, and how (or how software engineers work, and what processes are involved in that) in order to really be able to help on that point.

Stefan, are you using one of those workstations right now? Wink

Absolutely, yes!

Now, I really don't understand what your point about my "theory" and your "fact" was all about. I tried to get the most out of reading what I could find but all I found was that two of the systems had athlon 64 4000+ in them. I had

Correct. Though I'm not sure why you focussed on them since they are the least interesting systems on the network that primarily act as the internet gateways, provide DNS on the LAN, host the e-mail services, and act as the PDC - Primary Domain Controller and BDC - Backup Domain Controller. But if I read a but further on in your reply I suspect you missed a lot of the other systems listed in the sidebar.

also read that you multitasked different workstations for their cpu power, and while that is a good processor I just couldn't imagine why you wouldn't

The key word being different workstations. Not ALL, see.

I can't really make a judgment on what you need or don't need because I don't know the importance of the "projects" you do, whatever it is that they are.

Ah, see, that there is the key issue of your theory and the posts you made. I don't mind someone not understanding what I do. After all, not everyone is a software engineer with 26 years of experience or deals with virtualization. And yet you wrote things like "It's a waste of money for the use described" which is a judgement based on really not quite having an understanding of what that use is. I'm not sure how to put it delicately and discreetly, but as I read your posts with the theory all I could think to myself was "this guy has it all wrong from start to finish". Some folks just citicize my setup because they are jealous and I ignore that but yours presented a rather... interesting angle.

As for projects, I develop complex software for a variety of things which include realtime virtual set systems, civil engineering visualization, proprietary 3D graphics tools for the broadcast/movie industry, etc. You can find some of the links on my FAQ. I'm not sure where the word "important" came from, though. I never claimed anything I worked on was important (though many large government divisions around the world probably thing so given how they use one of the products I work on for the design of their roads and infrastructures). Of course the projects are important to me because they allow me to have a lot of fun and take three month vacations in a year.

Here's my only tiff though Stefan. I like that you challenge that I don't know all that I need to know to make a good analysis. That's true. I don't know what type of ram or at what voltage it runs or how fast the ram is clocked or what your front side bus readings are or what stress test benchmarks you run

The voltages and wattages are rather irrelevant, I think. And I hope you are not going to be offended but based on what I saw you write about my network based on not really knowing what I do and how I use it I'd say you know very little of it. For example, you completely ignored the topic of virtualization and that is actually the one biggest key importance of the entire network and the systems on it. Before you could judge any hardware or any network you would first and foremost need to understand what it's used for and I believe that's an area where I could probably enlighten you a lot. I'm sure you know a lot about PSP's and all that, but making the jump from that to serious business systems and their use is another thing, of course. That's the reason I asked you to explain some of the things you wrote because they really don't make any sense. For example your references to "network RAM" and how you assumed the systems were sharing the RAM on another system on the network. I'd like to know how you would do that since it's not very common and the term "network RAM" is used for very specific situations that clearly are for an entirely different situation (such as clustering and large scale databases) and isn't even a very common term in the world of IT.

or any of that. You seem to know a lot about computers but at the same time lack individual product knowledge... that is just what I assume though.

I'll entertain that idea. Tell me where my product knowledge lacks.

I think it is good that you have made sure to tell me that you run multiple operating systems (I got that from that web page) but I didn't get a good idea of which computer, or which operating systems are being used on those individual computers. I would like to inform you, and my apologies if you

I'm not sure what to respond to that without it sounding like an insult but if you understand the concept of virtualization and know what that's about you wouldn't have written the above. Instead, you would have realized that because of virtualization it doesn't matter which system runs which OS because many systems will run multiple OS'es for different tasks simultaneously whereby it doesn't even matter which system runs which OS at any given time of the day (excluding the two internet gateways, of course).

didn't know, but windows 32bit will only support a yield of 2gb of ram, no matter what speed. If you have more than two gigs of ram on any of those computers with a 32 bit operating system then I highly advise to put the extra

Sorry Deric, but you're mistaken on that. Applications that are compiled to address large memory using the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE switch, in conjunction with the /3GB switch in the boot.ini of a Windows system, will in fact lead to the support of 3 GB for user mode and 1 GB as reserved for the kernel. And the applications that do so are quite common in my field. I'm sure you can dig up a ton of articles on that with Google.

ram in a 64bit workstation instead (if the motherboards will support it). I was also under the assumption that you have a dual core xeon processor in your server... I'm hoping that is true. Please don't tell me that you are using

It's a dual dual-core Xeon, yes. There's another one similar to it on the network as well as a dual Opteron and a dual dual-core Opteron along with the two more standard Core2 Duo systems. But you refer to that big box as a "server". I can understand the confusion because it doesn't look like an average workstation case so I guess it's not uncommon to think of it as a server but it's not. I think I also made that clear on the website itself, it's a VM Host, not a server.

that old server board with the pentium pros lol.

Ha! No, those are framed because I made my first $100k with those. Same as the ZX-81 being around since it was my first "computer", and ditto for the old Amiga 1000 sitting around since it was the first computer I made money with in a professional capacity back in 1985.

You also mention that you have your hard drives in raid setup. I'd like to know WHAT raid setup is on which system/server. I am at school currently, and for some reason I can't visit that one page of your network so If I am asking what is easily seen on your website then please post it here.

You want me to paste the full list here? Uh... ok. Anyone else who can access the web, I suggest checking http://www.stefandidak.com/office/ instead.

SYSTEM 'ARGON'

Dual Xeon 5080, Tyan Tempest i5000PW, 32 GB RAM, Chieftec Arena 2000B, Nearly 8 TB of storage, 750 GB x 8, 400 GB x 2, 750 GB x 2, Areca ARC-1230, 12 x SATA300 RAID PCI-E x8, With 1 GB DIMM Cache, ATI X800, A whopping 86 Kg, A 500W and an 800W PSU

SYSTEM 'OXYGEN'

2 x Dual Core AMD Opteron 275, Tyan Thunder K8WE, 8 GB RAM, Procase Palo-Alto 501 Blue, 3 TB RAID-5 and 1.5 TB RAID-0, 750 GB x 4, 750 GB x 2, 250 GB x 3 (IDE), LSI MegaRAID SATA-150 6, 6 x SATA150 RAID, With 256 MB Cache, A whopping 42 Kg, A single 800W PSU

SYSTEM 'HELIUM'

Core 2 Duo E6600, ASUS P5W64 Professional, 4 GB RAM, Chieftec Bravo BA-01B-B-B, 3.2 TB RAID-6 storage, 400 GB x 8, Areca ARC-1220LP, 8x SATA300 RAID PCI-E x8, With 256 MB Cache, nVidia EN7950GX2, A mere 38 Kg., A single 800W PSU.

SYSTEM 'HALON'

Core 2 Duo E6600, ASUS P5W64 Professional, 4 GB RAM, Chieftec Bravo BA-01B-B-B, 3.2 TB RAID-6 storage, 400 GB x 8, Areca ARC-1220LP, 8x SATA300 RAID PCI-E x8, With 256 MB Cache, nVidia EN7900GTX/2PHT, A mere 38 Kg., A single 650W PSU.

SYSTEM 'RADON'

Dual Xeon 5060, Tyan Tempest i5000PX, 16 GB RAM, Chieftec Dragon, 320 GB x 4 RAID-5, 320 GB x 4 RAID-0, AMCC 3Ware 9500S-8, 8 x SATA150 RAID, With 512 MB Cache, ATI X800 PCI-E, A mere 34 Kg, A single 800W PSU

SYSTEM 'HYDROGEN'

Dual AMD Opteron 254, Tyan Thunder K8WE, 8 GB RAM, Chieftec BX, 150 GB Raptors x 6, Single RAID-0 Array, Areca ARC-1220LP, 8x SATA300 RAID PCI-E x8, With 256 MB Cache, nVidia EN7900, A little under 26 Kg, A single 700W PSU.

SYSTEM 'ISIS'

ASUS T2-AE1, Athlon 64 4000+, 2 GB RAM, 320 GB SATA x 2, Additional Intel Pro 1000+ NIC, A single 300W PSU

SYSTEM 'OSIRIS'

ASUS T2-AE1, Athlon 64 4000+, 2 GB RAM, 320 GB SATA x 2, Additional Intel Pro 1000+ NIC, A single 300W PSU

SYSTEM 'NITROUS'

HP NW8240 Mobile Workstation, Intel Pentium M 760, 2 GB RAM, 80 GB HD, 80 GB WD Passport, 120 GB WD Passport, ATI FireGL5000 Mobile, 15.4 inch 1920 x 1200 TFT

SYSTEM 'XENON'

Sony Vaio PCG-809K, 1 GB RAM, 60 GB HD, 15 inch 1400 x 1050 TFT

SYSTEM 'NEBULA'

Sony Vaio AR31S, 2 GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo T7200, 240GB S-ATA (2 x 120), 17" TFT 1920 x 1200, nVidia Geforce 7600/256 MB

In all honesty, I think it's great that you've come here because I would love to critique your system, but in order for me to do so, I ask that you give me

I'd love to hear it!

the specifications of each individual workstation and their purpose. Things that I am requesting to know are.

They are on the page and the FAQ. It might be helpful if you can actually surf to that because if I have to paste those as well things will really get rather lengthy, I suspect.

power supply - wattage - 12 volt rail?

I'm not sure about the power supplies in the systems, other than some of the brand names and total power but seeing as I only use A-brand industrial power supplies that generally cost multiple times what an average one goes for I think they're probably as good as it gets.

ram - speed - how much?
motherboard model number(s)?
Do you have any graphics cards in any of the systems?
what processors are in the workstations? - speed - L2 cache - brand - HT yes or no - socket
your complete server specs?
the specs for the notebooks?

See the list above or check out the website for the details. Speed of the RAM in all systems is per-spec HCL/RL for the motherboards.

What companies use your network?

Only my own companies (see the FAQ). Clients do not directly access the network here. Their material, builds, portals, and gateways are off-site at a more dedicated host that has the bandwidth for that purpose.

Sell me your Zx81? Wink

Never! I guard that with my life! Or... well... I might have it guarded with someone else's life! It's my most prized possession!!!

what types of drives do you use - your optical drives/ floppy/ hard drive(s)

The DVD/CD drives seem rather irrelevant, of course. Floppies? Most systems still have a drive for that because of install-time driver requirements but it seems that too would be rather irrelevant. As for HD's, most are Seagate or WD and on the RAID controllers the RE editions, of course. Oh, and some stacks of WD raptors. I usually keep a stack of the different sizes and brands around for when another one fails and needs a hotswap.

more specifics about the type of work you do and for who?

I'm a software engineer, software architect, and where needed also programmer. The type of work, well, as I said above. For who... well, I wouldn't just give out a list of clients (if only because several clients are competitors of eachother and it wouldn't be a good idea) but clients consist of major name hollywood studios, companies in the field of 3D visualization and graphics, civil engineering, broadcasting, etc. Most people seem to remember me for the many years I worked on 3ds max for Discreet/Autodesk, which is something easy to figure out using a search engine. Lots of history. On top of that, I've been in business since 1989 so the full client list would choke any website.

what did you pay for everything?

I really don't know (or care), actually. People seem to think I bought all this in a single swoop and that there was a price attached to that. Fact is, the entire setup is a snapshot of a 2-3 year period. Every 2-3 years everything has been replaced already with updated and newer systems because for the things I work on we always need to be on the cutting edge and assess and judge performance issues on systems that are likely to be used in the field and what users are likely to be working on. I do remember Argon in its current form being just under $26.000. I don't focus on cost at all but live by the "get it when you need it and not before, get it when you will need it in the next months, and if you need it to get the job done".

That's all I can think to ask right now, but I'm sure there will be more. I

Sure. Let me know and I'll happily fill you in.

think I should add that I think you have a great network setup, but I just don't see the practicality of it. I guess I just don't see the purpose/ logic

I noticed that from the posts you made with the original "theory". The reason you don't see the practical nature of it is probably because there's a lot of things you haven't encountered or are otherwise completely unaware of. You'd have to have a good understandig of software development and all the various processes that play their part in going from source to an actual shipping product. And you need to really understand what virtualization is about and why that is so important for todays large scale development projects. Without the key knowledge and insight of those factors it would really be very hard to judge or assess anything. It'd be like looking over the shoulder of a surgeon and describing their tools and use in detail when not being a surgeon yourself, so to speak.

and I am under the belief that at some point your server is more powerful than your workstations need (which is a good future-proofing strategy and if you are planning to expand the network further, then I see the reason for this).

The office is always expanding but the server being more powerful than the workstations... well, it seems we always keep getting back to the part where you need to understand what virtualization is and how software development benefits from it. Well, that and realizing that the "server" isn't a server but a VM host. If you do some research on what virtualization is you'll probably understand why the VM host is setup the way it is.

I browsed through the forum a bit yesterday and noticed you mentioning C++ and not having had the chance yet to get into that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that implies that you have a lot to learn, about C++ and systems programming, and after a few years experience with that, software engineering, and then a few years of experience after that, software development and development managment, etc. I realize there's maybe 20 years of experience difference between you and me (I'm not sure about your age, but I suspect a lot younger than I might assume), so feel free to ask.

I just need to hear more about your system, that is all. I hope you post back with all of the info I mentioned above (and more). Keep in mind that it very well be around 9:00 PM Eastern time that I get back here.

No worries. I'm usually on and off at the weirdest hours and times of the day myself. One of the perks of running your own business, you get to define when you do something and when you take off and all that.

Stefan.

[DarkPacMan77]

You seem to have done your homework... even on me. Virtualization is your key... I'm noticing that. I understand fully now, and must admit that I am wrong in many aspects and tha it isn't a waste of money... perhaps. Everything is nice and you have an outstanding network. All I had read on your page before gave insight to the weaker of the workstations.

Now, before I say my age, I have to let you know that your extra years of experience over me have given you the optimal time to grow up as a programmer (learning as it was all being developed). I'd like to point out that I have studied pretty much by myself and my knowledge has yet to expand into programming or larger networking systems. I can admit that easily. The knowledge I do know deals with system components/ operating systems/ building/ repairing computers. Now, I am an 18 year old senior in high school. The chances I know all of that stuff at my age is a little rare. If I were to know programming on top of that I would have to take far too much time away from my friends and social life. I originally thought that I wouldn't be online again until around 9 b/c of my friends but I have a class with computer right now so I am posting back.

In MY opinion... I would have bought the parts individually. I like system helium and halon by the way... kind of a side note... but yea. Also, For any type of graphic rendering you do including video work or syncing audio to video or just gaming... for any type of that work I would recommend anything better than the 800x onboard graphics for some of the systems . Then again... that opinion comes from someone that is more interested in building rather than in networking.

Great system(s), no flaws (the systems don't have the very best parts but they work for their purpose). I have three things I don't like, but they aren't flaws.

1. I don't like that the whole network is in the same room (besides notebooks - I'm actually on a "nitrous" computer now).
2. I don't like that the workstations weren't all built from the ground up.
3. I don't like that each system is not the ABSOLUTE best quality that it can be. You have money... and they could be a lot better.

Am I jealous? No... well, perhaps I am jealous of your Zx81 but I'm not disappointed because you are going to sell it to me

Now, you teach me more about visualization and I will teach you more about the psp

-DarkPacMan77-

You seem to have done your homework... even on me.

What can I say, I'm a fast researcher.

Virtualization is your key... I'm noticing that. I understand fully now, and must admit that I am wrong in many aspects and tha it isn't a waste of money... perhaps. Everything

A real waste of money would be if I had to buy a workstation for each of the VM's to have them run natively instead of virtually. The current cost of my virtualization is less than $20.000 in the virtualization software whereas having to buy upto 70 workstations at an average of $3000 each that would well over 200 grand. Not taking into account the additional space required, power and electric, heat output and cooling, maintenance, etc. And it would be less practical in terms of backups and redundancy as well in such a situation.

Now, before I say my age, I have to let you know that your extra years of experience over me have given you the optimal time to grow up as a programmer (learning as it was all being developed). I'd like to point out that I have

True. Most of the computer industry was still forming itself. Though the programming languages like "C" date back from just before I was born, though.

studied pretty much by myself and my knowledge has yet to expand into programming or larger networking systems. I can admit that easily. The

That's the only way to learn... do-it-yourself style. Back when I was in school I had already given up on learning anything practical that I wanted to learn and these days the education system seems even worse. Though I guess I'm not going to recommend dropping out of school and only taking the exams and passing them and then simply starting up your own gig like I did, especially since these days they do pay attention to truancy.

knowledge I do know deals with system components/ operating systems/ building/ repairing computers. Now, I am an 18 year old senior in high school. The

Ah, that is indeed younger than I thought. I first thought "late 20's" but then sort of guessed mid to early 20's.

chances I know all of that stuff at my age is a little rare. If I were to know programming on top of that I would have to take far too much time away from my friends and social life. I originally thought that I wouldn't be online again until around 9 b/c of my friends but I have a class with computer right now so I am posting back.

Do it like I did... pick up C/C++, spend a day on it, throw the book into a corner after day (since at that point it all looks like voodoo anyway), go have fun and socialize, then a few days later try it again, repeat the process and keep tossing the book into a corner until a few months later things start to make sense. C/C++ have a very steep learning curve from the initial steps but once you're over that initial curve it tends to become more logical. Of course, this does require a few years of only sleeping 3-4 hours per day. But, it can be done. Then when you hit your 30's you simply start taking things slower and catch up on some of that sleep you've missed out on.

In MY opinion... I would have bought the parts individually. I like system

They are, actually. Just not from individual suppliers but from a single dealer that gets me everything I ask for. I pick the parts and they do the boring work of putting it together and making sure everything works and is reliable.

helium and halon by the way... kind of a side note... but yea. Also, For any type of graphic rendering you do including video work or syncing audio to video or just gaming... for any type of that work I would recommend anything better than the 800x onboard graphics for some of the systems Wink. Then again... that opinion comes from someone that is more interested in building rather than in networking.

I don't do much audio and video anymore. I used to back in the 80's when I had a full production studio and staff but in those days it wasn't PC's that were used. The ATI X800 in the VM host is rather specific though... it's completely overkill, in fact. I needed an ATI card matching the limited driver support that happened to have two DVI outputs. The lower end card I originally planned was out of stock so instead of waiting I had them add the X800 instead.

If I need to test graphics specific things I usually pop out a graphics card in one of the machines and pop in one of the FireGL, Quadro, or WildCat Realizm professional OpenGL boards that I've got sitting around for those situations.

1. I don't like that the whole network is in the same room

If they were all in a rack or two then those still would lump all the hardware together. And spreading the systems around the house would probably be worse... more wires, monitor cables, etc. that would run from all those points all throughout.

2. I don't like that the workstations weren't all built from the ground up.

But they are. I usually do some research on what I need and what is a good match and set the parts and specs, then I hand that list over to my dealer with two questions; how much, and when. Then in a day or two I get the two answers and I tell them to go ahead. A few weeks later they come by and drop it off (and sometimes I pop in to check up on how things are going). If any hardware poses an incompatibility issues we decide on something else, like in the case with Argon where we went through 3 different RAID controllers and five different BIOS versions before we had one that actually worked up to spec and worked fluently. I prefer the dealer charges me for their time and effort instead of me having to spend that time and have it come out of business or social time (on top of that, it coming from one place is better for reliability since there's only one party to deal with that is responsible for any unforseen problems).

3. I don't like that each system is not the ABSOLUTE best quality that it can be. You have money... and they could be a lot better.

Money isn't an issue, true. What would you change, and why?

Now, you teach me more about visualization and I will teach you more about the psp Wink

Deal.

I'd say start out by checking out http://www.vmware.com/products/home.html and their core line of virtualization solutions. The top of the line stuff is http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/ "Infrastructure 3". On a system like Argon you can easily create the kind of configuration of systems that puts the IT infrastructure in a mid-sized company to shame in a jiffy. The other main product is http://www.vmware.com/products/labmanager/ which they aren't being too shy about. Virtualization has shaved off many months of development work here, resulting in lower cost for clients and thus more time to take on interesting projects and be able to be picky about it. If you want to give things a try on a smaller level, get an eval version of VMWare Workstation at http://www.vmware.com/products/ws/

Those VM's have also saved a lot of on-location time and effort. Every now and then we get a client with a very specific setup or using specific network policies within their domain that causes problems with our software. In the old days that meant flying out to the client, examining the problem on location, getting the IT department to allow us to hook up some laptops and grant privileges and rights to get around, etc. These days we just have the client create one or more system images that they can Fedex out to us on HD's or DLT and I can then easily turn those images into fully functional VM's and have a complete duplicate of the client's actual systems running locally for testing and debugging purposes. And if clients are paying for service and you don't have to spend money to fly out, that then turns into additional profit in the end.

The other really wonderful thing about it all is... the home office now has fewer machines running than in previous years (at the very peak after I decided to only work from home and dropped the concept of a separate business office there were as many as 20 systems up and running). So the past 3 years I need fewer systems but instead need larger and more heavy duty systems instead. The next thing I'm looking at as a replacement for Argon (or rather, one older workstation will get moved out and Argon gets assigned a new purpose) are the APEXX series of Boxx; http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/APEXX/apexx_series.asp though given that I know what Boxx uses inside their systems I'm going to have it duplicated by my own dealer with a few minor changes (because that case they are using is a serious dust-sucker-and-collector).

Stefan