Official Religion Debate Thread

IF religion is the reason for denying homos the right to marry then this IS the thread.

IF religion is the reason for denying homos the right to marry then this IS the thread.

no, its religion and common sense saying "marriage" is between a MAN and a WOMAN. if homosexuals want to get "married" then it isnt a marriage, its a "union"

call it something different, is that so hard to do?

[crait]

As you guys know, I like to program stuff....
When I program something, I can see exactly the code that tells things what to do and exactly how to move. I can add in some functions to where the system chooses what to do, even though I wrote the code. I know all possibilities of the program, I made the program, I know exactly how everything works in the program, yet the program has the ability to choose what it will do.
Predetermined fate or freewill?

Are you serious? You wrote an artificially intelligent program or did you just put so many variables in there you don't know what it will do next?

Are you serious? You wrote an artificially intelligent program or did you just put so many variables in there you don't know what it will do next?

his main point was the last sentence.. if we go on talking about programming here, that would be a little weird, and really off-topic...

Not really if you look at it like God programed us as AI and knows what we are going to do but we have the ability to change the outcome with the choices we make cuz thats what free will is.

[crait]

It makes total sense and is completely on topic.
Que, you don't need to program AI to have the console pick options by itself but if you want to think of it as AI, that would be easier for me to explain my situation.
The console can choose what it wants to do, but I know all possible outcomes that it can choose. So, freewill or fate?

IF religion is the reason for denying homos the right to marry then this IS the thread.

no, its religion and common sense saying "marriage" is between a MAN and a WOMAN. if homosexuals want to get "married" then it isnt a marriage, its a "union"

call it something different, is that so hard to do?

It is when all laws apply to MARRIAGE and not UNION

[DarkPacMan77]

So, freewill or fate?

Well, it's more closely related to fate because your program is executed as master and slave. It can only calculate between preset variables. But I don't see how this is related to religion...

If you are to use this logic in respect to Christian faith, then God would be your "master" in which he would determine your preset functions. He'd know all of the possibilities of what you can be because he made you... therefor any action you make would be one under his control (in this example) - which isn't the case. If that was the case, then that would mean that God makes murderers, children born with birth defects, or even gay people on purpose... an example that I would say more closely aligns with proving Atheistic values more so than a "Divine Plan" or creationist theory.

-DarkPacMan77-

[crait]

I was just asking what people thought about the situation.
And when programming, there are things such as random variables. You can literally have a console pick a number, at random, between 0 and 1,000,000,000,000,000 if you needed to. Think of the values as possible decisions people could make. As a programmer, you will know the range of numbers, just like God may know the range of decisions people can make. You could look at the corresponding functions just like God may be able to look at the possible reactions from the decisions people could make. I think it's a great example. But, instead of assisting Atheist viewpoints, I believe that this would aligns God's role more closely to a 'spectator,' instead of the director. As if we are a master play for him to watch. In the Bible, it talks about this concept very similar to the idea of 'karma' and it says instead of you being directly effected from your mistakes or sins, later generations will be effected or harmed. This is sometimes used to justify why there are babies born with birth defects. Not necessarily to hurt the baby, but to hurt the parents of the lost child. There's a lot of other theories but I believe that this is a very close one to way certain things like this occur. This would be able to fit into the situation that I asked about because it wouldn't be God's decision that caused babies to die, it would be one or two more sins of an ancestor.

Am I saying I know that this happens? No. Do I know everything? No. This is just a composition of theories.

[BKFraiders7]

Now, it may seem to be against Christianity to be "pro" gay marriage, but it is not against Christian values to accept that there are gay people being married lawfully... and I say so because nowhere in The Bible does it say that it is illegal for gay people to be married, so in my opinion, it makes it more unfaithful to the Christian faith to be prejudiced against another human being in that nature as opposed to respecting your fellow brother or sister for their decisions... even if that means making decisions you don't agree with. After all, is it not God that gave us free will (if you choose to look at it that way)?
-DarkPacMan77-

Im kinda disappointed in you DPM. I come back to do saying "no where in the bible does it say it is illegal (which I take it to mean against God's will..) for gays to marry"..when we had a talk about this and you said yourself i disproved that theory.

Even tho I dont really like NKJV version (I like KJV) here is one way God says gay is wrong.

"And the LORD God said, 'It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.' Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: 'This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.' Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
(NKJV)

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

This plainly states that a "gay" man or woman can not go to Heaven. I dont think it is that simple though, I believe if you are a true follower of Jesus Christ and you truly devote yourself to his teachings you wont be gay in the first place.

"Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,"

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

So if were going by the bible- Which yall have been doing- its pretty easy to see God does not like Same Sex (Gay) marriage. Now, I assume someone will come along and say I dont believe that part. Which doesnt make any sense to me how they can believe and trust in one part but not the other.

God gave us free will, but that doesnt mean we should sin against him.

[DarkPacMan77]

God's will is to say that it is detestable to be gay. It is natural, by God's will, to be married into a heterosexual relationship. Yes, that is God's will, but that's also in a book. In reality here we have couples being married just for greed, for money, for fun, for stupidity... but none of that is covered although morally we can judge accordingly and collectively understand that it is "wrong" to get married for those reasons. It is not illegal to do so, however.

There's a reason that just about nothing from the Bible or "God's Will" is actually "law" that mankind has to follow, at least in the USA. I mean, sure, there's good talk of violent crimes/ murder and what not but it's not "illegal" to be adulterous like the Bible mentions. It's just "morally wrong" to a few. For some couples, being adulterous is some of the best experience(s) they have with one another and purposely cheat for gratification. It's not a law, it's just not accepted widely as "correct".

Since the inception of the Christian faith, mankind has been brought to think that God's will should be taken literally as law. This is very dangerous and wrong, especially to a modern democracy. There are religions that clarify that their followers should take arms against anyone working to do harm to their religion... I mean... say if those people were to fight for that to be law then they would legally be doing something which is illegal to others.

Gay marriage is just the same. We are, for the most part, legally denying gay and lesbian couples to marry just because we, as a people, are sheltered, inconsiderate, and not open-minded enough to allow someone to have their own life, opinions, and values. Forcing religion onto people in that manner to the point of creating a law against a certain minority is appalling, in my opinion, and I believe that when we're all a bit older our children will relate our handling of gay rights in the same way as African American citizens' civil rights when people of color began to have rights equal to ordinary white citizens.

-DarkPacMan77-

[crait]

I think my marriage thread should be reopenned....
But anyways... I stand by my prior opinion on that matter: The government should stay out of marriage and courtship affairs!

[BKFraiders7]

And I hope your wrong.

Tell me, was the United States better before the US started taking God out of everything? I mean was there less violence, less murderers, less fear, more respect, more money, and all around better people? In my thinking, and research, yes. (Now, I know your going to give me some scientifical explanation of why this isnt so).

Now we are taking God out of the United States and where has it left us? Look around.

Now, I know your thinking Im wrong. Its human nature to think someone is wrong when they disagree with one another. But what if Im right? Were gonna have some bad days when they completely remove God. And I pray to him he gives me protection from it.

[crait]

What right is given to the government that allows them to dictate who we should be married to?
What gives them the right to say how we're allowed to marry or even when we're allowed to marry?