Official Religion Debate Thread

[DarkPacMan77]

I'd rather not watch the Zeitgiest, the first 5 minutes or so was pretty false since it was blaming religion on man's doing. And it just seems like a waste of time. What is in the movie that counters religion?

AdventWolf, you know I have a great deal of respect for you, so please take what I'm going to say to heart. Zeitgeist counters religion in so many hundreds of ways that I can't sum them all up from the top of my head, however, the main method in which it uses to show that religion is "made up" or "false" is exactly what you said.

You said that the first 5 minutes or so was false because it was blaming religion on man's doing. Well, that's EXACTLY what the movie is about - how man is responsible for religion, and backs it up in hundreds of ways, perhaps most powerfully through astrological representations and the recycling of the story from the Bible. If you thought Zeitgeist was "false" because of those reasons, then that is exactly why you need to watch it. Allow the movie to make its points about how religion is man's doing, and I can honestly say that it will make you think differently about the world you live in from here on out - especially when you check the facts that the movie makes, and realize that the great majority of them are historically accurate as well as accurate today. I have yet to find a point from the movie that was a blatant lie about religion (or any other points it makes) which only makes me hold it to a higher degree.

The religion part is 30-40 minutes long out of the 2 hours total. It also talks about the attacks on 9/11 and how it may have been an inside job in the government, as well as how our monetary system is absolutely corrupt. Watch it with an OPEN MIND and ask questions about it - then use the movies' answers and look them up to see how accurate they are. It will be worth your time.

-DarkPacMan77-

[ace]

What exactly do you mean religion can't prove the bible? @ dpm

I thought it was pretty ironic in the fact that I have never watched that movie either all the way, but i did remember what I have heard several people say what they believe the definition of religion is. They often said that religion is just mans attempt at "bonding" himself with God. Which is basically what that movie used the most. And I sorta agree with it. You could probably twist what I said to somehow use it against me, but I don't care. Because what I believe is you need to have a "personal" relationship with God, through Jesus.

As for science evolving, I meant the fact that the bible was written thousands of years ago. Science is still advancing it's discoveries. The bible isn't targeted towards proving modern day science wrong, it's pointed towards pretty much just saying the truth (what I believe to be the truth).

And finally, I agree with advent wolf about not watching that video. Even if I somehow managed to watch the whole thing through, I don't believe that it could change my beliefs. Maybe it would show me more things people think about and I would try and find an argument for it, but it won't change the way I look at the world. I already know a lot of conspiracies, and how the presidents are out to get us, how the government is nothing but trying to hurt us, and all that other stuff.

I mean why should I believe a way of life based on proving things wrong or right, when it can't disprove Jesus's life without a doubt, one of the most important events in the bible. Christianity isn't based on proof, so I don't believe that would be a valid argument. But I'm just saying, why should I believe something based on proof that can't disprove Jesus life?

Also, I want to revisit the Pluto thing. How do you know Pluto is real? Many people say it is, just like Christianity, theres pictures of it, just like Pictures of God or Jesus, so how do you know it's real? I don't know much about astrology, but I can at least doubt that you have touched it or seen it with your eye directly. So how do you know it's real?

since nothing can 100% substantiate religion, and nothing can 100% substantiate athiesm/ agnosticism or prove religion false 100% by scientific means, wouldn't that, in turn, mean that religion, just as well as science, are both equally wrong?"

-DarkPacMan77-

READ

Main Entry: faith Function: noun

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

As per the definition, science does not even play into it. Anyone see the word science in that definition?

[ace]

Ah I forgot to mention about that too. I meant to say in reply to that comment that just because it can't be proven doesn't mean it isn't real. Some of us don't need proof. So yea. Thanks for that que.

wow you all spend way to much time writing these...
thats why my responses suck haha i spend basically no time on them.

I'm not going to try anymore.

But all i say is that Using zeitgeist i have changed about 6 or more christians into agnostics and atheist, and i just dont see how you guys cant see what this movie is trying to say.
To me the picture is clear, and nothing in this world, except the proof of god will ever turn me into a man of faith.
But to sum up probably my last post:

I know i have said a lot of stupid and ignorant things, and im sorry for that. I just dont really spend like 1 hours proof reading and trying to use big words and stuff. I just state my opinion, thinking you will KNOW its my opinion, but obviously not so you all get mad and i have to come back saying " its my opinion"

I dont mean to be stereotypical, i think its unreasonable and unjust to say something about all people just because of the action of a few. I just thought that you would understand that when im saying "75% of christians were brought up that way" you would know im jut guessing.
And its ot really stereotypical because i dont say all.

But i dont it funny, that just like seen hundreds of times in history, 2000 years from now people will look at us and be like " how did these people believe in a guy who are crusified" just as we look at the religion of Greeks and be like " how did these people believe in many gods"

Its just comical to me that there is always some religion to deceive people. There just always has to be such a thing and i dont understand why its so hard for people not to accept that their faith might not be true. I also find it funny and unjust that all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

Just my opinion, this took me 5 mins so sorry if there is anyone that sucked or something. I'm not ganna spend like half an hour writing a good post

[ace]

I also find it funny and unjust that all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

I just wanted to point out another one of your stereotypical comments is wrong again, just like the time you said that you read the whole bible unlike me. I believe, that just because your not baptist doesn't mean that your going to hell. We all believe in the same God (Branches of Christianity, and Catholic, etc.), maybe we do little things different, but we all pray to the same God, believe the same 10 commandments, and believe that we should witness. The rest is history if you ask me, the reason I don't think Catholics are to right is because if I remember correctly, they pray to Mary. I don't believe that is right, and you should pray to God. And Jews believe that Jesus wasn't the Messiah. But as far as I care if we pray to the same God then your all good.

Also, we don't spend hours trying to find big words to use, we just have good grammar, and a large vocabulary. Sorry if you criticize us for trying to say things that make sense. while you flat out say that things we believe are incorrect, then later you say it was just your opinion, and then you act like we stupid and you know everything by making "smart" comments. But that's all I'm going to say, since you said that was your last post.

wow you all spend way to much time writing these...
thats why my responses suck haha i spend basically no time on them.

It takes more time to think than it does to write. Take your time and gather your thoughts. 10 minutes whatever just make sure your idea is conveyed.

OH and I almost forgot, PROOF READ!

I'm not going to try anymore. I have said a lot of stupid and ignorant things, I just don't really spend like 1 hours reading. I just state my opinion [like] all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

Funny you would say this because all Muslims acknowledge the existence of Jesus correct me if I am wrong. Catholics also recognize Jesus too not just Christians and I believe Jews do too though they do not believe Jesus was the son of God they do acknowledge he existed.

I also find it funny and unjust that all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

I just wanted to point out another one of your stereotypical comments is wrong again, just like the time you said that you read the whole bible unlike me. I believe, that just because your not baptist doesn't mean that your going to hell. We all believe in the same God (Branches of Christianity, and Catholic, etc.), maybe we do little things different, but we all pray to the same God, believe the same 10 commandments, and believe that we should witness. The rest is history if you ask me, the reason I don't think Catholics are to right is because if I remember correctly, they pray to Mary. I don't believe that is right, and you should pray to God. And Jews believe that Jesus wasn't the Messiah. But as far as I care if we pray to the same God then your all good.

Also, we don't spend hours trying to find big words to use, we just have good grammar, and a large vocabulary. Sorry if you criticize us for trying to say things that make sense. while you flat out say that things we believe are incorrect, then later you say it was just your opinion, and then you act like we stupid and you know everything by making "smart" comments. But that's all I'm going to say, since you said that was your last post.

i just meant i dont spend much time on writing these, why do you take everything i say so seriously damn.

I never said all people of all religions bash each other, did i? so its not stereotypical.
Most christians i know say catholics will go to hell, well im just saying what i have seen in my life.
Its not my fault you haven't seen such a thing.

And last time i checked, you dont pray to the same god, if you did than all you would have the same books.

I dont know this, but dont catholics, mormons, christians, methodist, and baptist all sue different books but they all call it the "bible"?

Alright cool DPM, I guess I'll take a look at it sometime. I've had it on my computer for like 3 months lol.
JW: Is it stereotypical to say that 75% of black people are gangsters?

Alright cool DPM, I guess I'll take a look at it sometime. I've had it on my computer for like 3 months lol.
JW: Is it stereotypical to say that 75% of black people are gangsters?

not really because i bet its true lol
but sure it is, but if thats what you believe than its ok, unless someone can prove you wrong.

but i see what you mean man.

[DarkPacMan77]

since nothing can 100% substantiate religion, and nothing can 100% substantiate athiesm/ agnosticism or prove religion false 100% by scientific means, wouldn't that, in turn, mean that religion, just as well as science, are both equally wrong?"

-DarkPacMan77-

READ

Main Entry: faith Function: noun

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

As per the definition, science does not even play into it. Anyone see the word science in that definition?

But you see, that was exactly my meaning. To have faith is to believe, to trust, to accept a set of guidelines that were taught to you by your superiors under unfortunate circumstances in which can't even be proven... but not only that, can't even be proven by the text in which the guidelines were originally written. That's what I mean when I say the Bible doesn't prove itself. If the Bible used science to prove that Jesus was born of a virgin birth, was dead for three days, was resurrected and ascended into heaven, how come you never see a formula or equation proving how such a thing was possible? Before, during, and certainly after the life of Jesus, the world had more than enough physicists, mathematicians, astronomers, natural philosophers, alchemists and theologians needed to come up with scientific and mathematical answers for how such amazing things happened... but yet you find that there is still no science that substantiates religion, and no religion that substantiates itself using science, so therefor, the most LIKELY answer is that the Bible is fiction.

And ace, the planet Pluto is real because we have photographic evidence of the mother fu*ker... for crying out loud. We know Pluto's mass, surface area, density, how fast it rotates, how much it tilts, how many moons it has, and we can pretty much come up with an accurate air density and composition.

But wait... you must have DNA evidence of Jesus Christ right? No way would you bring up that same "Pluto" bullsh*t and make yourself look dumb, right? Or maybe you have photographic evidence of Jesus Christ that propounds the same scientific leverage as these pictures of Pluto. With an argument like the one you just brought up... you better have at least a picture of similar quality to the last one taken by the Hubble Space Telescope.







-DarkPacMan77-

Alright cool DPM, I guess I'll take a look at it sometime. I've had it on my computer for like 3 months lol.
JW: Is it stereotypical to say that 75% of black people are gangsters?

not really because i bet its true lol
but sure it is, but if thats what you believe than its ok, unless someone can prove you wrong.

but i see what you mean man.

Haha maybe like 50% but I was JW because of this

I dont mean to be stereotypical, i think its unreasonable and unjust to say something about all people just because of the action of a few. I just thought that you would understand that when im saying "75% of christians were brought up that way" you would know im jut guessing.
And its ot really stereotypical because i dont say all.

So I guess it's not stereotypical or maybe.

I'm not going to try anymore. I have said a lot of stupid and ignorant things, I just don't really spend like 1 hours reading. I just state my opinion [like] all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

Funny you would say this because all Muslims acknowledge the existence of Jesus correct me if I am wrong. Catholics also recognize Jesus too not just Christians and I believe Jews do too though they do not believe Jesus was the son of God they do acknowledge he existed.[/quote]LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
you did not just say muslims think jesus existed...
wow i have never heard something that stupid from you.
I mean i live with a muslim family, i lived in a muslim country, and know many muslims, and not a single one i know of says jesus is real...
but thats me, what do i know, its not like i was muslim once (sarcasm)

[ace]

I never said all people of all religions bash each other, did i?

Answer: Yes you did. Proof:

I also find it funny and unjust that all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

So yea, you were being stereotypical.

I mean if you don't want to be taken seriously then don't post.

Also you must not know much about Christianity, since you think methodist & baptist are a religion on there on XD. Yes, 3 of the "religions" you said use the same bible. And I also explained what I believed about catholicism. Did I miss anything?

Dang dpm, chill. I was just saying you never touched pluto or seen it with your eye. All you can do is believe other people and have faith that it is real. Took that way out of proportion.

I never said all people of all religions bash each other, did i?

Answer: Yes you did. Proof:

I also find it funny and unjust that all religions bash each other saying the other does not believe in the real god.

So yea, you were being stereotypical.

I mean if you don't want to be taken seriously then don't post.

Also you must not know much about Christianity, since you think methodist & baptist are a religion on there on XD. Yes, 3 of the "religions" you said use the same bible. And I also explained what I believed about catholicism. Did I miss anything?

Well i heard from many christians that Baptist and Methodist are denominations of christianity, making them basically the same religion.

But i said all religions, not all the followers of all religions.
All religions meaning, some or most of the people consisting in that religion.

i mean dont you see muslims bashing christians, while baptists bash christians while christians bash catholics?

not all, but a good number.
I never said all the people of these religions.

And you just have a thing for me man, your always just trying to find something to get me on, its funny.