Official Religion Debate Thread

[DarkPacMan77]

To me it's not a joke. People live and die for these reasons. It is ultimately a matter of life in death - not in the way that you choose to be a certain way and die for it, but because people live their lives under pretenses that may or may not influence them to say, volunteer for war or choose to be a missionary. Religious influences are powerful, and you're underestimating how important this issue is if you insist that it's a joke.

-DarkPacMan77-

To me it's not a joke. People live and die for these reasons. It is ultimately a matter of life in death - not in the way that you choose to be a certain way and die for it, but because people live their lives under pretenses that may or may not influence them to say, volunteer for war or choose to be a missionary. Religious influences are powerful, and you're underestimating how important this issue is if you insist that it's a joke.

-DarkPacMan77-

JESUS take a freaking joke i was talking about how u guys accused the cathoics of shoving your beliefs down others throats while u dont it hadnt anything to do with wat u said there and If u want me to be serious fine ill be serious... how about this... no matter how much u dont believe in religon because of your "facts" those same facts are based on facts that disprove other facts and will themselves be dis proven, nothing in life is completely fact there are infinite possibilities and all facts shall 1 day be dis proven by other facts.... SO instead on running on facts y dont u run on something u can always fall back upon.. something that while immaterial well probably never be disproven by a fact or if it is... then that wont happen in your lifetime....why dont u fall back on faith that which can never be taken from u........ y dont u fall back on something people have willingly given their lives hopes and dreams to.... without faith... then the greatest people in the world probably would be mere footnotes.... martin luther king was a very faithul man whom i dont believe would've done wat he had without faith... neither would have Washington, or Queen Elizabeth.... so... please give me some witty comeback give me some "this is wrong because" but, u kno wat you'll never convince ANYONE who had strong faith to begin with.... so keep your weak facts to yourself.

wow that sounds rly hostile doesnt it

[DarkPacMan77]

I contemplated deleting your post because it's obviously anger-fueled and not welcome in this debate, but I'm not, at least not now. I don't make "witty" remarks based on facts that are not concrete facts. So I'll address you as best I can.

1. Great people have been religious. A genuine Christian compass is, at core, a respectable way to live a life. If you live a life without stealing, without adultery, without bearing false witness etc. - those are good traits. As for whether Washington, King, or the Queen Elizabeth adhered to that compass, I'm uncertain of, and so are you, but that doesn't make them bad people for believing in a religious faith. Doctor King is one of my most favorite people to have ever lived.

2. You say that my facts will some day be "overwritten" sort of, as in, my facts aren't solid enough to be considered fact, yet, you fail to mention why your opinions are indeed more factual than my own. I can, and will, further explain any point of mine and cite sources, as I've done before, if you're uncertain as to whether my sources are not true, or my statements are sitting on hollow ground. If you can bring factual evidence against mine that supports your religious cause, then please express it. I'm not being rude when I say that I'm more than willing to lend an ear to anything that makes religion itself more factual. Don't, however, attack me by saying that my facts will be proven by other facts until you are capable of expressing your own - in which case, I am pretty sure I can come up with proven scientific facts that "overwrite" your religious-based ones.

3. It was a joke, yes, and I'm not trying to make it sound like it is a dire circumstance in which the world will end if everyone doesn't believe the way I do. I just think that the kind of humor you expressed should not be found in a serious debate about religion, and your childish attitude that you've expressed isn't either.

4. I refuse to argue with you. This is a debate. Put your statements out there, and I'll put mine. Don't be offended and say that my statements aren't accurate just because you're under the suspicion that I shouldn't "run my life on facts". I'd much rather live a life based on factual information than blind faith - believing something that can completely not be proven.

5. If you aren't comfortable to question your own opinions or beliefs, then please don't take part in the proactive debate of this topic, because you aren't being proactive as it is.

-DarkPacMan77-

Idk, I'm a Christian, I have great moral values, I'm not spoon fed, I am a pretty smart guy, I am easy to get along with, I think I am OK as a Christian. I'm about my only teacher, I'm good.

dont we all think that?
like all of us, and we might all be wrong
thats the beauty of it, that we think we all all this, but in reality, we might not be.

And im probably the biggest one, who thinks he knows everything and he is perfect and intelligent, but in reality i am not

[DarkPacMan77]

None of us are all-knowing. I guess I was a bit unfair earlier when I said this to DracoDarco

nope my beleifs are my own and yes we have discussed the rebellion thing a bit

Your beliefs aren't your own, in a religious sense. It's impossible to have your own independent beliefs if you associate yourself with a religion. You just think somewhat differently than what you associate yourself with, but religion still imposes its beliefs unto you.

My point being, you didn't just happen to believe any religion. It was taught to you. You only chose to accept certain aspects of it.

Regarding what's wrong with cloning life or altering it, nothing is. Many religious institutions would say otherwise, however. Many don't agree with it because that means the humans are taking the role of a "God" - which, if you think about it, makes a very valid anti-religious topic of interest. It doesn't just make a supposed God seem like a human, instead, it makes humans have the power of a supposed God.

Why follow a God if the man standing next to you is essentially the same in "divine power"? - that's the question that religion doesn't want to answer, and that's why they're against that type of science.

In reality, I guess it's fair to say that my conclusions aren't "my own" just as religious ones taught by priests or ministers etc. aren't "his own". I think that was a bit unfair for me to say. In my defense though, the information that I've learned has come from more varieties and different sources than religious ones are really capable of coming from, so in a way, it was pretty fair. I haven't come up with any theories that are alternate from what are out there currently, that I know of, but then again, I'm sure that DracoDarco hasn't come up with his own individual conclusions either.

-DarkPacMan77-

lmao this made me laugh so freaking hard.
no dis respect

just wondering what you christian people think of this
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseacti ... d=35499676

I'ma watch this while I post cuz it is taking a while to load.. so here it goes
I'm not sure all of what the mean, they didn't clarify what they meant when they said "when Jesus returns".
It could mean the rapture,
or the 2nd coming meaning Armageddon and all that stuff.

The announcer guy said that the people "re-interpreted" prophecy so that the temple has to be rebuilt before the second coming. This guy knows nothing, of course the temple has to be rebuilt, it is stated clearly in scripture.
And it must be rebuilt before "both" of the 2nd comings.

Ok, I finished watching it. What is funny about it? I didn't see any re-interpreting in scripture or anything.
And the guy said Revelation is being preached in all new ways? Ok? How so? They didn't mention anything out of the ordinary.

2000- omg jesus is going to return and all non believers will be destroyed
I swear i can kind of remember, i was told that Jesus and Muhammad(muslim prophet) would return together with the Prophet of time and cleanse the earth.
2000 came, and nothing. Than they said well 2012, now saying that the temple has to be rebuilt.
So thats re-interpreting it.
When i went to church they told me Jesus will come whenever he feels it is necessary to cleanse the world, whatever that means
So is he on vacation with god or something? Anyway, sorry for that comment but i had to throw out there

But its just funny how they interpret it however it best suits them

EDIT: i went to this church and they told me that, so dont think its some small BS church, this is a huge church that makes 1.4 million a week, amazing
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=1 ... a=N&tab=wl

There have been so many interpretations over time I think the true meaning is lost to all eternity.

I have found references to 5 Zodiac signs in the bible Gemini, is found in Genesis for anyone that knows which signs I am referring to. The word Mazaroth is found in 2 places that I have found. Mazaroth translates to the Zodiac. Not the stars not the constellations but the Zodiac a specific band of stars and constellations used to foretell future events. At the same time, the bible forbids astrology and fortune telling but it insists on making exceptions for its prophets. It kind of makes you wonder why the word Mazaroth was never translated or why it was ever included in the text. It could have easily been left out of several revisions of the bible.

Chapter 1 of Genesis states that God intended for mankind to go out and multiply upon the earth but if you study chapter 2 you can easily interpret the opposite.

Jonah could not have survived in the whales belly for 3 days. Jesus supposed resurrection took 3 days and it takes 3 days for the sun to move from south to north from December 22-25 on the winter solstice, do the math. There are many numbers and situations that repeat themselves throughout the new and old testaments. It is explained that these events foreshadow the coming of saviors. for example "The Slaughtering of the Innocents for Moses and Jesus. I could easily ask why God intended for things to happen this way but I won't go there; I invite you to research on your own if you feel so inclined.

Look up the story of Masada sometime and ask yourself why God did not perform a miracle for his people in this instance of greatest need. I think it is because the story of Masada was originally told by a historian and not a mystic. We know the story is true because there have been excavations proving the text. The story of Masada was deemed unfit for the Holy Bible by the Roman Catholic Church and was left out of the bible we know today.

Today we do not know when to take the bible literally and when to accept it as figurative speech. I assume that ancient peoples knew but over time this knowledge was taken for granted and now look at the mess we are in. Millions of people waiting making sacrifices some even persecuting others in the name of a Messiah that will likely never come.

Done ranting...for now.

Well the Bible never said anything about 2000 or 2012. And they never said it was in the Bible, now they are changing it from that. But it was never in the Bible in the first place so they aren't re-interpreting scripture.

Yea it makes me mad people try to "interpret" scripture when it is convenient. Because they just end up making themselves look stupid in the long run. Jesus will come when the prophecy is complete, thats all there is to it. He "isn't on vacation", he is waiting.

The thing about the temple being re-built before Jesus comes has always been in the Bible. Finally are they speaking the truth, they aren't going out on a whim of Y2K.

It says before the second coming the AntiChrist will commit a great sin that will blaspheme God which is most likely proclaiming he is God in the temple. The temple being rebuilt isn't a new "excuse".

It says before the second coming the AntiChrist will commit a great sin that will blaspheme God which is most likely proclaiming he is God in the temple. The temple being rebuilt isn't a new "excuse".

I think Caesar did the same thing almost 2000 years ago by placing a pagan idol in the temple in Jerusalem before it was destroyed for the umpteenth time.

I guess history DOES repeat itself. We will see.

By the way has anyone noticed that before the temple can be rebuilt the Dome on the Rock (correct me if I am wrong) needs to be removed? Since Muslims and Jews alike respect this structure it seems likely that it will be around for some time to come.

Yea there have been a few sacred Jewish temples
Solomon's
Herod's
And some other I always forget it.
Then there is suppose to be this one on earth.
Then one on the new earth.

I guess either the Dome of the Rock will be destroyed, that or the two temples will be side by side. I have no idea.
The Bible speaks of a treaty that will bring peace to Israel with all the nations and all that, maybe that treaty will also bring peace between the Jews and the Muslims. The Antichrist is suppose to make this treaty.
It seems highly unlikely that the Muslims and Jews will agree to stop fighting. Although Israel has given up land to stop some fighting, but they just have way too many enemies. All the children grow up to be taught to hate one another I guess.

Ironically I think that religion is what is keeping the region unstable. There can be no holy wars without religion no jihad no entefada no madrasas.

If we could get the people to become more secular then perhaps there would be some resolution. Aside from complete annihilation of all involved of course. That is just not practical but is a solution in itself.

Haha yea, too bad. Just have to see how it turns out.

This thread needs to be revived. It's interesting watching people debate.

At teh moment I am trying to get my hands on a copy of the Satanic Bible. I'm interested by the Satanist's philosophy.
Alot of people think that Satanists worship the being known as Satan. This is wrong. Satanists see Satan and God as symbols rather than beings.
The word Satanist comes from some crazy language (forgot) and it actually means adversary. Which is why Satanists used it as the title of their religion. They oppose religions that control their people. There are rules in Satanism just like in Christianity but these rules are rules that would normally apply..

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Satanism is with being greedy and doing things for yourself. They believe that to help others you need to first help yourself.


Satanists do not sacrifice people, or kill animals, or anything in-humane like that.
Satanists are about being the animal you really are. "Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all" - Taken directly from the Church of Satan's website.
Satanists do not believe in a heaven or hell. So they believe that they will not be judged for their earthly sins when they die.
Satanists DO preform rituals. Some rituals mock other religions (EG the Black mask ritual in which satanists dress in black robes and wear masks that reflect what other people see as Satanism), other rituals are used for releasing anger, lust and other built up emotions.





This is just the little knowledge I have on Satanism but it makes sense and is rational. This is more for me than believing in faith than a being that no-one has proof that he/she exists.