Official Religion Debate Thread

We celebrate my birth near Halloween. Am I the devils child then?

I would say no but then again I don't believe in a devil.

What do all the stars (which as you know are suns) say about me then Que?

I don't know. I don't believe in Astrology either.

We know a manger is what they eat from..thats what the bible says. I dont know where you thought we thought a manger was a shelter.

You know better, that's great but a lot of people don't (see the art below). I was putting that out there for them.

They didnt have hospitals everywhere back then. It was a lot of farming. A stable was the best place they had left...especially since they couldnt stay in the inn. You said you read the scripture..you should know that.

I know the story as well as you. I know they could not stay at the inn. Why would a late term mother travel and not stay put? You tell me why they were there in the first place.

Nativity scenes:

Notice the goat and the horse in the background

Cows mixed with donkeys in another stable

This one has baby Jesus on a bundle of straw not even a feed box! 3 magi outside the stable.

Is that a goat or a cow next to the horse?

[Kanadier]

We always have to have an answer for everything. Some things just don't have one.

We live in an age where information is at your fingertips.

Yes there are questions that have not been answered and the more we discover the more questions we have but I don't think there are unanswerable questions there are only answers we have not yet found.

We have discovered lots of obvious scientific facts in the last century, for example, tectonic plates. What before was a complete mystery, now seems so obvious, yet every time something new is discovered, we create a false illusion that we know everything. In reality, man just has a very difficult time accepting the fact that there might be something smarter than us out there somewhere.


How do scientists know the Earth is millions of years old? they've only been researching for roughly a hundred years, they have no accurate way of telling. It's the same concept.

[BKFraiders7]

So you dont believe in astrology in yet your quoting from it? Doesnt make since.

Before this gets locked again I just want to put this out...

We are exiting Capricorn(the goat) and entering Aquarius(the water bearer)
This pattern of stars signaled the coming of the rainy season (baptism of the land?) hence the name AQUArius.

Currently the sun is beginning it's trek through the Zodiac. January is when the westerners celebrate the new year and in the east (China) it is celebrated in February.

About "The art below" "Jesus was lying in a manger". Hmm when somebody says something like that I usually look what hes lying in..not his surroundings.

You say you know the story..then you ask why she was traveling when pregnant. I guess you didnt read the whole thing.

Heres the verse:
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed... 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with Child" (Luke 2:1, 4-5).

And last, why are you showing me pictures not even from that time? rofl.

Each person has their own account for what happened. Thats one way we have a broader view.

Its like this. I wasnt there when you typed what you typed. I can assume what was probably there tho... I say W7, but who knows Airplanes might say Linux and Crait might say Mac. If we all painted what we thought wed all have the basic (true) concept but different versions.

So was it

Hahahahahahahah BKF +3 rep!!!!

[crait]

I hate Mac!!!!!

if only i had more rep to give...

[BKFraiders7]

I hate Mac!!!!!

Sorry, first person to come to mind

[DarkPacMan77]

I'm sorry, but that's a really terrible iteration of making a point against Que. The jist of Que's post(s) is to show that the themes in the Bible are themes that occurred in religious texts predating Christianity. His question, which he didn't directly ask, is "how can the word or life of Jesus Christ be the "only" truth if the religious texts based on the story of Christ are seemingly plagiarized from other religious texts that existed before Christianity?"

Sorry if I interpreted that differently than originally intended, but I think I got it.

-DarkPacMan77-

[BKFraiders7]

Well, since he didnt ask that question how were we supposed to know to answer it?

We answered what he gave us and gave him counter examples.

Que I see no goat. only lambs. Which represents Christ.

So you dont believe in astrology in yet your quoting from it? Doesn't make since.

Well Astronomers still refer to Aquarius as a constellation, that doesn't mean they believe in the horoscope. I don't believe in the bible but frequently find myself referencing it to make a point.

Example: Matthew 2:1 "After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
You can't come from the east and follow a star in the east traveling by land because that actually puts you to the West. Jerusalem is north of Bethlehem so what gives? However, from the sky you can look east and follow a star to the east.

You say you know the story..then you ask why she was traveling when pregnant. I guess you didnt read the whole thing.

Heres the verse:
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed... 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with Child" (Luke 2:1, 4-5).

Right. How much sense does it make to have Joseph move from where he is to where he was born just to pay a tax? Why didn't Mary have to go to her home town? We don't even know Mary's lineage, only Joseph's. Did Caesar not count women? All I am saying is that Mary should have stayed with someone in her condition or given birth first then traveled.

The tax would be a pretty relevant event but it is only mentioned by Luke not Mathew. Mary and Joseph fled to Egypt because of Herod and yet there is no mention of Herod in the book of Luke the way that it's mentioned in Mathew. Was this not relevant enough to write about?

None of this makes sense from a historical view but if it is all nothing more than a story then the I guess the details really don't matter.

And last, why are you showing me pictures not even from that time? rofl.

Because there ARE NO pictures or even manuscripts from that time. The first nativity painting known is from they year 1223 The gospels we are debating are known to be from roughly 120AD. Maybe 70AD at the earliest but this is yet unconfirmed. So no one bothered to write down anything about Jesus for over 30 years after his crucifiction? No one bothered painting a picture of his birth for another 1200 years?

Each person has their own account for what happened. Thats one way we have a broader view.

There is what we think happened and what actually happened. You know how rumor works.

Que I see no goat. only lambs. Which represents Christ.

It can represent whatever you like however goats and lambs are VERY closely related creatures.

[crait]

So, I was on another forum that I get on daily, and there's a heated debate going on about the existence of God. Here's basically what the original poster wanted to know: Can God create something that he, himself, cannot control? That wasn't the exact question, but I want to know how you guys would answer this.

@Que. yes goats and lambs are very closely related, but so are apes and humans. doesnt mean i am a ape.

@crait. "Can God create something that he, himself, cannot control?" God created Everything there is nothing he cannot control. Everyone one given Free will (doenst mean he cant control us) evin his angels. For ex. Luifer was the highest ranking angel and was jealous of God, so on his own free will and some angels to they chose to leave/rebel. but God still controls Lucifer/satan/the devil/Dis what ever you call him and he has to answer every single time he is called. no matter what.

So IMO God controls it all. But free will makes us look un-controlable.

Angels are creatures made to carry out what God has asked them to... they dont have the power of thought or free will...

(If ur not interested in Islam, then don't read this) We Muslims believe that this life is a test (for humans and jins) and there will be an afterlife in which every one will be judged for their actions...

Remember I cannot say That a certain religion is wrong, it might be wrong to me abut right to others.. we all have to Co-exist in this world..

For ex. Luifer was the highest ranking angel and was jealous of God, so on his own free will and some angels to they chose to leave/rebel. but God still controls Lucifer/satan/the devil/Dis what ever you call him and he has to answer every single time he is called. no matter what.

This story is repeated time and time again by true believers and yet I have never come across it in the bible. Do you have the scripture reference that describes this?

But free will makes us look un-controlable.

Freewill is an illusion. Allow me to explain.

Destiny=a predetermined course of events. Prophecy=a prediction of something to come.

Jesus said that Peter would disown Jesus 3 times and he did. Why would peter do this even after witnessing the miracles that Jesus performed? Regardless it is said to have happened and so this shows that there is no free will. Because even after Peter was told of his future and even though at the time he disagreed he went along with his destiny anyways. Free will is an illusion.

Without destiny there can be no prophecy because free will would ruin the result. However if everything is already pre determined then predicting outcomes becomes possible.

Conclusion, You can not believe in free will AND prophecy together.