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what do you think about god and religion?

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light_alistor

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:39 am

well rome was an empire. they dominated over most of western world in the name of conquest, at the time they were swiftly becoming that ONE government.

israel is in direct conflict with ITSELF.

the jews disliked jesus correct? they believe in the old testament which was written before or after jesus?
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AdventWolf

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:44 am

Well thats not a One world government, thats like the US totally taking control of Canada or Mexico and making its own and under its rules.
The Jews persecuted Jesus. The old testament was before Jesus. There were Jews that believed and followed Jesus aka the disciples and other hundreds and thousands of people that rallied at his sermons and experienced his miracles.
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light_alistor

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:48 am

they knew nothing of america. vaguely about asia and africa. by becoming i mean that they had YET to conquer the world. but had so far been succeeding

so the split was jesus? due to whether he was or was not the savior?
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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:53 am

what do you mean as "the split was jesus?" ?

EDIT: Well im not quite sure what you mean when you say that, but it has been great talking to you, I'm glad we could go back and forth and converse about this topic :D. But it's getting pretty late, night.
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light_alistor

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:20 am

between jews and christians. it was jesus. old and new testament.

aye was a good talking to you
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que13x

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:43 am

AdventWolf wrote:But where did these trillions of planets come from?


No one knows if there are trillions of planets. It is only known that there are trillions of stars in our galaxy alone. It is speculated that some of these stars could have planets that some of them must harbor live in some form.

This is predicted by the "Drake Equation" which is really one scientists best guess, Google it.

The equation is logical but in my opinion a little too optimistic because for life to exist as we know it a specific set of conditions must exist.
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que13x

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:10 am

My $.02

The book of Revelation was written by someone named John. Most assume it was the apostle but if it was, why was the book not included in his gospel and why did the other Apostles not have a similar revelation as well?

The book of Revelation was translated form an original Greek document named "Apocalypses" which in Greek means to reveal or revelation. Misunderstanding the true meaning of the word has changed its definition to imminent disaster or final doom (fun game btw). I do not know anything about the source documentation used to compile this book but I would think this is crucial to its understanding. Many books of the bible are translated from Greek and I suspect from older texts written in other languages perhaps Aramaic. It is unfortunate that we are at the mercy of the translator to deduce the true meaning of what the author intended to convey.

A side note, how many people believe that Jesus is a Hebrew name? It is not. Jesus is a version of a Greek word that means "one who was anointed" Y'ashua was his name. In English it should have been translated as Joshua.

The major issue I have with "holy Texts" is that many are written vaguely and allow various interpretations of what was written. Nostradamus created no religion but I want to use his writings as an example of how vaguely written text can cause a firestorm of debate and controversy. Texts were written this way so that the author could avoid persecution for what was written the same is true for the book of Revelation.

I am told history repeats itself. Whether or not this is true, I do know that most of what was written in Revelation was aimed at the Roman Empire whom at the time dominated the known world. Nero Caesar was the Antichrist as he saw Jesus and his followers as disrespectful of the empire.

Caesars face was everywhere, it was stamped on every coin of the period which without you could neither buy nor sell.

The Roman occupation is another case of outsiders invading and changing local rules and customs. Rome like all empires before and after conquered lands for their resources and so that it could tax those that were living under its influence. It was the intention of the Roman Empire to conquer all lands within site. Rome in its conquests was only limited by geography and manpower.

The bible as we know it is a compilation of books that was put together and approved by the Roman Catholic Church (ironic). Many books and likely verses were taken out and dropped because they were seen as inappropriate or contrary to the churches views.

As for the revenge quote "eye for eye" (we all know the rest). This has been taken largely out of context and again it weighs on what you believe in. As I read Exodus 21:23 I understand that this is a regulation stating that "fair"reparations are to be made in time of war especially when it comes to the harm of the innocent. My understanding of the "eye for eye" statement is that this is a limitation, in other words keep the reparations fair and just and do not take more than what was taken from you. The passage even goes as far as stating that you can sue in court and allow a judge to decide if your claim is fair or not.
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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:43 am

Well Revelations was written some time after Jesus' death when Josh was exiled to some island where he was in seclusion. And it isn't with his other chapters because "The End Times" chapter shouldn't be mixed in with stuff that the other new testament authors wrote, mainly about Jesus' life and him being crusified and rising from the dead. And most of the disciples where killed in a some time after Jesus left earth. However, Josh was exiled to an island where he was left in peace to write Revelations.

It is too bad that you can't get the full interpretation of the Greek and Hebrew Texts. But there are scholars who look at the Bible and translate it themselves and find the meanings. However, I do not think Revelation needs any more translation, or was mis-translated. Revelations is a book about 2 things, showing the signs before Jesus comes back, and what will happen when he gets back.

If you ever read it, you can see how easily put out everything that was needed to to show signs before His return and what will happen once He gets back.

Nero Caesar was the AntiChrist? He was a dictator, if he saw stuff to his un-liking in his empire, he would ultimately put a stop to it. If Jesus was in Germany with Hitler or Russia with Stalin, they would have killed him too. That doesn't make them the AntiChrist. If that was what you meant.

The beliefs of the RC church are different to those of the Protestant churches, thats why there where separatists. The Separatists became Pilgrims as they left the RC church and journeyed to America. For Religious Freedom.

I know what you mean about that "eye for an eye", I never use it.

light_alistor wrote:between jews and christians. it was jesus. old and new testament.

aye was a good talking to you


Oh ok, well Christians didn't really come until after his death. I'm not sure of all about how the Jews think, but I think they think Jesus was not actually God's son, but a messenger, therefore they are awaiting for Jesus' first coming. I think.
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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:27 am

In Revelation 13:1 John notes that he "saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads". Who here believes that a great and terrible creature will rise out of the Atlantic or Pacific? Clearly we have to interpret this as metaphor.

The seven heads easily represent the famous seven hills of ancient Rome. The Seven Hills of early Rome are the Cermalus, Cispius, homosexual, or a pile a sticks,, Oppius, Palatium, Sucusa and Velia. All are figured prominently by both ancient pagan and Christian writers. Anyone reading this passage in ancient times would clearly connect the seven heads to Rome in the way we connect oil to Saudi Arabia in modern times.

Most of what is written in Revelation and what is being described fits events that occurred in ancient Roman times over 2000 years ago. Caesar clearly was after Christ and his lot for not submitting to Rome and making a mockery of the emperor. Therefore I believe that Nero Caesar and only Nero Caesar is worthy of the title "Anti Christ". No other dictator alive nor dead can assume this title because Jesus and Nero are the only two whose lives ever intersected.

In my opinion, any other understanding or interpretation would be equivalent to joining a jigsaw puzzle with scissors to make the pieces fit. Once finished, the puzzle pieces no longer resemble the intended original.

This is why we have "separatist" and so many offshoots of Judaism, because the texts are written ambiguously and there are many possible interpretations to what is written.
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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:43 am

He may have the title, but he can't be him because it says that the AntiChrist will act as a false prophet and pretend to be God. I guess since Nero was the first major persecutor of Christians and killed John and Paul, he receives that title. A lot of people believe that the papacy is the root of the antichrist and the antichrist will be the pope, that may be but the antichrist will proclaim himself as God. And Nero did not proclaim himself as God, therefore people don't think he was The AntiChrist. In the Bible it says the AntiChrist will sitteth in the temple, im guessing the the temple that is to be rebuilt, and there, the "Abomination of Desolation" will occur. The Abomination of Desolation is suppose to be a very blasphemous deed that is a sign to the coming of Christ.
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que13x

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:22 pm

I still think it is Nero.

Three inscriptions on a statue in Athens Identified Emperor Nero Caesar Augustus as New Apollo, a Greek god. Claudius, Nero's father considered himself a living god as did many rulers of the ancient world such as Xerxes of the Persian Empire and all of the Egyptian Pharaohs for example.

Roman emperors assumed whatever role would best benefit them to rule over their subjects including pretending to be gods.

I would assume this would include making prophecies though I know of no specific examples. After all, Emperors were heads of state and had quite a bit of power and influence to "make things happen"

I still do not understand this phrase "Abomination of Desolation" It sounds like an old Ozzy Osborne record or the latest Castlevania game.

My issue is this.

It is written in the bible (Deuteronomy 18:22) that gods prophets will make predictions and you will know them from the false prophets because only the true predictions will come to pass.

I can agree with this however with respect to the book of Revelation a lot of what is prophesied is ambiguous and makes no sense when taken literally. Therefore it can be interpreted in many ways.

For example:

I suspect everyone has heard of the term rapture. This is a hot topic in Evangelical circles but where in the bible is the word rapture ever used?

Predictions should be as clear as the 10 commandments otherwise how would we ever know if they have come to pass?
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AdventWolf

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:50 pm

Why would the rapture be used in the Bible? It wouldn't say, "..and after these things come to pass, the rapture will happen". The rapture was a made up word to express the time when those who are saved will rise up into heaven. Instead of giving these words a name, the Bible simply states what happens. How is the "rapture" a wrong interpretation? It is a word used to express something real in the Bible.

Maybe Nero could have been some special high Demon guy that the Devil used to persecute Christians. I just don't see why if he persecuted Christians, and over in China where Christians get persecuted, are the officials that command that, Satan? The Devil can use people to do what he wants. I just think that if the AntiChrist would appear, he would get friendly with the people and say He was God and gradually get rid of religion. Did Nero totally want to get rid of religion? I think he just wanted to get rid of Christians. So if the AntiChrist was in power, he would totally get rid of all religion.
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que13x

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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:27 pm

I dunno, I just try to stick to the facts as much as I can.
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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:53 pm

well since were talking about god and the bible...where do dinosaurs come in? i do believe in god, and am a "christian" but idk sometimes get very confused. Like we have facts about dinosaurs, but the bible doesnt really talk about them much, and it says that god made everything in the eatrth in 7 days. i dont think science says that humans were around when dinosaurs were? or am i wrong!
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Post Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:13 pm

Well the word "dinosaur" is man-made to label "huge animals". In the Bible it speaks of "leviathans" and "serpents" and "beasts" and "behemoths" These are all possibilities to be the modern day term of "dinosaurs".
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